Hey guys. Just a quick update for those of you who frequent Reddit. There is now a SubReddit for MisterXmedia. I created it back last summer and never really did anything with it. I decided now would be a good time to revive it since I find myself posting less and less about him on my site as time goes on. I encourage anyone who wants to to go hang out there if you like.
Be sure to bookmark both and subscribe!
MisterXmedia's latest post is live:
Insider Daily. PS4 will get its Mantle like CPU optimization too. Still isnt enough to pass DX12/UE4
Insider: Qb is pushed back. But there is storys of hololense being used for overlay and new effects. When the game does a time loop you can walk around and look from different angles. I haven't seen this only what was said. But it does fit in well with the forza 6 stuff. And the prospective of the 3rd person elements have near feald pov which is hl specific for tv projecton.
More will come soon. But both console have to get the hdmi 2.0 sorted asap.
and steam is coming its company is still heavily pushing steamos but new opengl to match dx12 api. Expect gabe on stage @ e3. Its business.
..dia-star-swarmDx12 performance analysis ..
Misterx: What do you know about Mizuchi Engine? Is it real or smoke and mirrors as usual for PS4?
Insider: Physical based rendering. Engine. No that's the real deal. There using some nice tech api but it's based on a mantel api on ps4/PC ..
Won't matter tho it will be big with middle ware tho.
The level of quality coming will supersede this by a fair margin. But won't land till 2016 we will see some really nice aspects tho.
The dx11.3 update to games like dead rising 3 and Titan fall are all designed to be CPU bound
These games will be getting core updates. Not every first cycle games will benefit.
They don't have draw bundles.
If we look at xbox one architecture and how dx12 benefits PC you get a direct ideas of a jump.
When I referred to 50% difference this was in contrast to early benchmarks just a ball park figure Truth is it's a lot higher. Ps4 is not going to benefit as heavily from mantel 2.0 as dx12 . Because dx12 is not just gfx api. It is more complex it's a an overall api. Even audio
CEO Brad Wardell, is correct in his specifics his engine is-specifically design to be CPU bound.
But he also is not the gfx gpu type of guy. No doubt he understand. Nda are being enforced.
Only what is being talked about is only backing up what is common knowledge within the community's.
I am 100% sure he knows what is coming at Gdc and then e3 from ms. And his assumption of xbox one not even scratching the surface. His thoughts on the dx9+ game engines we are playing games based on is current also. Cross generational gaming. Even forza 5. Forza horizon 2. Ryse were all designed to be on xbox360 so there back end is still dx9 specific. But there using dx11 in minimal travesty. :)
What can be expected is still developer bound also. Bf4 hard line is the example that dx10.1 is the primary back end because the engine was based around the time dx10.1 Was being updated to use dx11 api
Xbox one was all ways design for forward compatible with future versions of dx api. 11.1 is just placeholder.
Brad Wardell, is correct also In regards to cgi level gfx. Gears will blow your mind. E3 can't come quick enough.
Misterx: That Mizuchi engine is on pair with UE4 rain demo...
UE4 looks a little better to me. But still looks great for a 1.8TF PS4. How many draw calls this require?
Cant imagine how there could be even better GFX
Oh, i forget Paris demo. It looks even better.
Open world on Xbox One vs corridor game on PS4. That trick will allow PS4 last longer again.
gforce1981: BETA TESTED IN THE FUTURE Lets talk some numbers :) I thought I would re post this for the benefit of everyone (as I replied to someone above)
But if you ever wondered why and How MS could have launched a console that at the start was 'deemed' to be under powered however was never the system that had the less power.
the 768 operations per cycle on the xbox one VS the 1152 ALU on the PS4 is where you have made your mistake.
The 768 operations per cycle on the Xbox one HAS been confirmed by MS and the Tech guys.
the 1152 number for the PS4 is ALU processors, this does NOT equal number of threads. If you go back to all the information on the current gen GPU's from AMD (the same one used in the ps4, well any GPU from AMD really) and they require 4 ALU's per clock to complete 1 Operation
So the CORRECT maths is this.
PS4 = 1152 / 4 = 288 Operations Per cycle (confirmed ALU from Sony as well as Confirmed from AMD hardware re the 4 ALU per clock per operation)
Xbox = 768 Operations Per cycle (CONFIRMED BY MS)
So the thing is, MS have NEVER stated the amount of ALU in each Compute unit, they have only stated the operations per cycle.
If you work backwards you would 'think' that the xbox one then would have 768x4 ALU = 3072, however this may also be incorrect because if you look at the ACTUAL die shot photos you can see that the PS4 has 64 ALU per CU (which is Stock standard GCN), and on the xbox one you can see 128 of 'something' in each CU.
So that is why you also see a lot of people here talk about xbox one having 1536 ALU (12 CU's * 128 ALU = 1,536) and the PS4 is 18 CU's * 64 = 1152.
Then you will get people say things like, well if the Xbox one has more ALU then why are the games lower resolution.
Well the SIMPLE answer for that is Third Party Games have been using the Dx11 Vanilla Code path for games on Xbox one, and we know that Dx11 GIMPS the GPU as it relys on only ONE CPU to feed the GPU, and we have to remember that the xbox one has smaller CPU cores than the like of an I7 for example.
So you have a SINGLE Smaller CPU core (using DX11) trying to feed (lets use the example 1536 ALU) you will literally NOT be able to use all of the GPU power because of the CPU bottleneck.
This is also the exact reason why the likes of Brad wardell have said that DX12 will be like giving xbox One owners a GPU that is Twice as powerful.
Because once you remove that CPU bottleneck they then can feed the GPU fully and we get better performance
"Can anyone think of an example where the console that appears weaker is in fact the stronger system?" (not his exact words but the same point)
His actual words (From Albert Penello)
"Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.
People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.
I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years… "So this is how the Xbox one can be released and 'seem' less powerful at the start.
Revben Chase Da Kingdom : We have seen that xbox one cpu can do <100k drawbundles and a bundle can be 10draws, so xbox one can do 1 million draws!!!!!!
With so much draw calls, the next bottleneck is command processor, but xbox one four command processor, this sick. xbox gpu next next already!!!!
Plus, each thread can do 128bit/clock. Everyone even on beyond3d agrees xbox one has 768 threads, so do the maths!!!!!
Mistercteam: Which is why MS stated they modify the CP
as AMD hinted that Future HW consideration one of it is CP bottlenecks
Now On AMD slide there is also interestig slide
that basically inline with PS4 performance, remember PS4 game developer supposed to be already using low level API
Then Hope people catch what i trying to said.....Check all above slide !!! Bundles is related to CPU performance !!
SO IF PS4 already using LOW level API the CPU can only submitted in range of 10K-30K
and X1 DX12 slide showed 100K Bundles (WOOOOWWWW!!)
--->> Think it , what kind of CPU on X1 can submitted that monster 100-500K Drawcall or >100K Bundlesof course not JAGUAR !!!!! ....... <-----
gforce1981: How Avatar like graphics will be achieved
We are getting back to what was stated by AMD many years ago, and that was that the next xbox WILL be able to produce avatar like graphics.
now this was from AMD and NOT from MS at the time. (Even though MS have said it will last 10 years etc)
Now we hear from Brad the same tune like what AMD said. (and even in his podcast said lookout for what AMD is bringing at GDC :) ) not to mention how many people are talking about Dx12 etc.
So, so far we have seen a little glimpse of what just the Dx12 CPU performance improvements can do to a game.
So what this means is no long will there ever be an issue about games having MASS amounts of things on the screen at a time.
So how do we get to Avatar like graphics.
- we have the CPU optimisation which Eliminates the CPU as being the limiting factor to what the GPU / other processors can be fed with.
- we have GPU optimisations / new render modes etc that I believe with Dx12 will be a game changer (and I think we will see this at GDC)
- we have seen that even like AMD said in their slides and anantech is that the Command Processors are now the bottle neck in old gen GPU's
- we know that the xbox one has highly beefed up and customised Command processors that can EACH handle 16 work items each 4x16 = 64 work items, unlike the PS4's 1 CP with the 8 Aces = 9 work items)
- we have yet to see games implementing the tiled resources, remember the demos MS showed how instead of needing GB's of data they can now produce a 1920x1080 render using less that 16MB's. This is Magnitudes of times better perfomance and it uses a "FRACTION" of the bandwidth.
- we have yet to see how the offloading processors in the xbox one come into play
- we have next gen games that are NOT going to be using the DEFERRED rendering paths and instead use Compute Paths. which ONCE again has been proven to use Less Bandwidth, Less ROPS and more efficient.
- We have 4 move engines in the Xbox one that are there to stop the GPU from having to do those tasks (PS4 doesn't do this)
Cloud Offloading.... remember 3 times the power of the xbox one in the cloud for EVERY Xbox one Owner.
If you add these things together;
Dx12 + Tiled Resources + Lower Bandwidth Requirement + Dealing with Compressed data + offloading processors + Offloading to the Cloud + fast on chip caches and memory and eSram = A BEAST OF A SYSTEM.
remember how MS Engineers said they designed the system so that NOT ONE item would be a bottleneck in any particular situation.
What we have just seen from Brad Wardell and we have seen with the test with the Draw Calls on the OLD Dx11 hardware was Now they have gotten rid of the CPU bottleneck they have realised that NOW the Command Processor is NOW the Bottle neck.
So look back at what MS has done with the Command Processors (they HAVE 4 Beefed up ones)
So remember how Brad said AMD will be showing something and people might get pissy and that is because PC gamers have been playing with Gimped Hardware (I know he was also talking about CPU's etc) but think of it, if that DX11 Hardware they tested had a better Command Processor or had more than one, then that wouldn't be the bottleneck in that card anymore and would ONCE AGAIN allow the card to perform even better.
So the more we find out the more we realise that MS have Developed an ABSOLUTE MONSTER of a SOC and it is now going to take time for the software to catch up (which isn't far away now :) )
This my friends is how we are going to get Avatar like graphics.